Why We Do This: Reflecting on Six Months of Radical AI with Dylan and Jess
In this special episode of The Radical AI Podcast Dylan and Jess pull back the curtain to reflect on six months of the show! From qualitative research to ontological horseplay - this episode has it all…
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Transcript
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Welcome to Radical A.I., a podcast about radical ideas, radical people and radical stories at the intersection of ethics and artificial intelligence. We are your hosts, Dylan and Jess, and today we have a very special episode for all of you. Dylan, what is today?
Today is the day that we are celebrating six months. So that's half a year. For those of you keeping track at home of radical A.I. or of the Radical I podcast, more specifically. And we are just so excited to celebrate with all of you out there in this radical AI podcast community, because it's it's a big deal. I mean, just as I have mentioned multiple times that, you know, we were expecting to get like three listeners within the first like three months. And it's just ballooned into this thing that we're still trying to figure out what the heck to do with. But it's very exciting. It's impacted our lives immensely.
And so this is the episode in which we're taking on a whole show slot during our normal Wednesday show. Time to just kind of reflect and talk about where we're at, to reintroduce ourselves a little bit and just to do a kind of a chill celebration. I know just and I are both in the middle of our semesters as PhD students right now. So we also thought that ha, well, maybe we should just take a second to exhale a little bit. And again, to to just celebrate all the work that we've put in, all the work that our guests have put in, all of the stuff that has just been real, you know, blessings in our lives and to in this radical EHI podcast world.
Did I miss anything in my rambling, just rambling a little bit, but that's OK, because that's what happens middle of the semester for students, way too much going on in our brain.
So, Dylan, I'm going to start off by asking you, what is one of your biggest takeaways so far from the first six months since we launched the podcast in mid-April? Exactly. April 9th, 2020.
We have some just and I have some inside jokes about things that we say a lot in our interviews. And maybe, again, maybe you are keeping track at home and we'll let you track those down.
I'm not going to make it easy for you, but one of them is is the word takeaway. And sometimes when we talk about takeaways at the end of an episode, I don't necessarily know what to say. And this is this is no this is no different because there's just so much that I've been reflecting on.
While we were prepping to do this episode, there was so much that I was just like thinking about that that I could say here. And I know in some other episodes we've talked about, like the gratitude we have for the community and for the people that have taken a chance on us. But I think that's that really is the thing that's that's first and foremost in my mind. I mean, there's a lot of like things that have been of benefit to me and to my research and doing this work.
But really, it's like the things that I've learned about people and about just how generous people can be when you put yourself out there. And for for me, like one of the things, one of the values that we try to embody, we don't always live up to it, but we try to embody is that humility and that curiosity to learn and to keep learning and.
For me, like.
That's a vulnerable position, and so for us to just be out there every week trying to live into that, sometimes again, like succeeding, sometimes not fully living into it, and that guests come on and just like tell us about stuff and we listen. And then people are kind when we get things wrong and that this thing just keeps growing and that people want to be a part of it. I don't know. It's just like a real humble or humbling experience for me.
But that's all rooted in just like gratitude and the sense of kindness that we've experienced from this community that continues to grow. So I'm just you know, that's always my takeaway is just that that gratitude.
What about you, Jess?
Well, you took mine, but I think something that's been in my mind a lot recently with this project is you kind of mentioned this briefly in your reflection is just how public our research and and our evolving thoughts around all of these topics in ethics are and how interesting of an experience that is, because sometimes honestly terrifying to know that there's that many people who are like listening to your words and your thoughts on this stuff and are developing and changing thoughts and potentially scrutinizing the way that we are evolving as early PhD students like we're both second year in our PhD programs.
So like there's a lot of stuff that I still don't know and there's even more stuff that I don't know that I don't know. So even hearing some of the things that I've said and thought about in early episodes in the podcast a few months ago, sometimes I cringe at some of the things that I said, because I already know that that I've learned how the things that I originally thought are maybe wrong or so different now. And so just to know that like, that's so open for for appreciation. Yes. But also criticism in in the public sphere is is sometimes terrifying and great, too. And I'm super appreciative for it. But it's it's such an interesting feeling.
And there's been, you know, an amount of of both of a lot of positive feedback of what we're doing. And I think there's a lot of folks that are appreciating this space and what the space represents and then also some level of critique. And part of that has to do with the identities that we carry. Part of that has to do with, you know, certain questions that we ask or that we don't ask. And it's hard, right? Because you you can't do it all. And it's hard because even like your best intentions are something, sometimes you just ask a question poorly. And one of our editing style, or I should say my audio editing style for this project has been to leave in as much of the stuff as possible. Like sometimes we cut out or sometimes we if a question doesn't go like it doesn't really add anything to an already hour long episode. Right. Like we can cut that. But in general, we try to keep it as more of like an informal conversation where we're really trying to get to know our guest and their research, but then also us and the things that we're struggling with.
Because like that's what's compelling to us when we listen to podcast is that is that storytelling and the banter and like what people are actively thinking. And that's the positive part, right. Is that vulnerability. But the negative part is that it's also vulnerability. And so it's really wild that people have gotten connected and so like invested in our personal stories as public figures. And this part of me that's used to it because of like the fact that I was a minister. And so I had like a group of, you know, 700 people who knew me far too well and knew my family system far too well and knew everything far too well. But it's different when it's like across different time zones, across different like where everything we're saying has some level of, like, scrutiny. And you know what what gets said is not always what gets heard. And that can happen in wonderful ways and also in less and less than wonderful ways. And so it's still like this continuous growing experience, which is, you know, we're we hope that you're enjoying the ride, were sharing the ride.
And of course, I mean, the point of this episode in particular is to celebrate and to say, you know, thank you for being a part of of this ride, what whatever it's been for the past six months, just you have like a favorite.
Moment or a favorite like interview or experience on Twitter or something that is sitting with you right now as we record this.
There are so many moments that stand out to me, so this is by no means my favorite or the best moment, but this is just one that came to my mind.
So it's funny because when Dylan and I first started this project, for those of you who have been around since the beginning, you might have noticed that we started with a lot of scholars based out of Colorado, because when we started this project, this was before covid hit. And so we were actually planning on doing in-person interviews originally and then quarantine hit the week before we were supposed to start interviewing people. And so we already had the first few interviews set and they were with a lot of our colleagues and friends from our own universities and people who we might have been actively working with or were, you know, introduced to by friends of a friends or advisors or whoever it was. And so we were originally planning on having this show just be with people that we knew and with a lot of students, especially because we didn't really know that many people personally that we thought we could actually get to come on the show, especially as it was just launching. And of course, in the back of our heads, we had, you know, a list of, like academic I'm using air quotes here, like academic celebrities that we would like die to ever have on the show and even just to meet whether or not they came on the show. And I'm thinking of like several moments when Dylan was just like the one who shamelessly plugged our Twitter like crazy, and he's just throwing me under the bus about it.
But our strategy, my strategy, shameless, shameless in a good way, is the positive word.
But but really, Dylan, I mean, your ability to, like, shamelessly ask some of the people that we were. So at least I should say me that I was so terrified to even approach in the first place.
So by shamelessly just of course, means kindly and strategically, I requested and invited folks from our community that we looked up to to become a part of the show, of course.
Yeah, I just walked out of my mouth. So, yeah, it's a shame. This can mean a lot of different things. Thank you. Thank you for clearing that up. Yes.
So I think it's funny because just three people come to the top of my head that when they responded back and said they would come on the show, we freaked out.
And the first one was for me was Sara Meyers West, because she works in the EHI Now Institute. And I've just like been fangirl ing over that institute since I first even heard of the expression ethics when I was thinking about whether or not I wanted to go to grad school a few years back. And so I remember just like screaming out loud when she said yes on Twitter back to us. And then when Ruaha said yes to us. I just remember in the Zoome meeting, Dylan and I were sitting there waiting for her to join the meeting. And, you know, I think it was like one minute after it was supposed to happen.
And we were both like, this is too good to be true. This isn't going to happen. This is too good to be true. And then she comes to the meeting and like both Dylan and I's faces, it's like we saw ghosts. We were both just like frozen like, oh, my God, this is probably one of the craziest moments of our careers right now.
And so the third person who came to my mind was Timna Gebre, who was like Dylan's version of Sarah Myers West. And he screamed when when she responded on Twitter.
So, I mean, this has happened with all of our guests. So really, this is like a bad example. But just the fact that we have, like, these people that we've looked up to for so long and then we get to see them and talk to them screen to screen because of quarantine has just been like the craziest experience of my career.
It's basically just been six months of just, you know, checking our Twitter and screaming. That's basically and then doing a little like recording and editing on the side. But pretty much like for the forty hours a week that we spend on this is pretty much all just Twitter and screaming. Yeah, absolutely. No, no, I'm kidding.
But it's just been it's been like so exciting to be also to be a part of some really fascinating conversations that have been going on in the world and in the academic spaces, in the industry spaces, and then to also, you know, continue to lift up some of those voices in those conversations that are doing such important work. And for us to actually have like I mean, thanks to you. All right. All the listeners out there who have given us a platform and for you to be desiring to listen to us as the platform for these speakers.
Right. That's there's a lot of different places. You could just go to YouTube and you could just like put in real hard Benjamin's name and things will come up. And those are a lot of you know, that's a choice that you can make. And we we do not blame you because a lot of wonderful talks. In fact, in about 25 minutes or when we're recording those Ruaha Benjamin is going to be speaking at Injustice Department at the Boulder.
And it's just it's fascinating to me. Like, it's it's just like so weird for us to be able to be like, oh, yeah. This world renowned scholar, like, you know, we still go to her for advice on some things or like we still like can. In some ways or something like that, and it's just it's weird how small, I guess that's another take away, how impossibly large and impossibly small this world of artificial intelligence, ethics and just responsible technology in general is like it really is a community and a lot of ways and I think sometimes it's hard to get into that community.
It's hard to necessarily make those connections. But I think if you're willing to put yourself out there and I think this could have fallen flat on its face. Right. But the fact that we were willing to put ourselves out there as students as well in the name of knowledge, learning and justice. Right.
And some of the justice work that surrounds our work, that it was just it's just been a really incredible journey with that. But I think that's something we did want to talk about because some of you don't know who we are.
And sometimes we say it and especially we say it in like are really, frankly, pretty hilarious and engaging outros of our absolutes, which we have a lot of fun doing.
This is what shameless means, Dylan. That's I say that's a good that's the themes that resonates. Factor Sector that was Shane was listen to the on the episode. But we know that a lot of you don't because I don't listen to the end of a lot of podcast episodes that I listen to either, especially if the guest is gone or whatever, like I've gotten what I need and I'm out of there. That's fine.
I understand which side note, actually, for those of you who might be new around here, if you actually don't listen to the end of the episodes and you didn't realize this the last like five to 15 minutes, depending on the episode, is actually after the interviews ended.
And it's just Dylan and I reflecting on what we learned and what we thought and what came up during the interviews. In case you didn't know that it can be fun.
Yeah, we make some jokes.
There's some some joshing around academic banter, some some ontological horseplay. I'm going to trademark that.
That's good.
No, but it's it's I think that we do the interview thing, but we really don't talk about ourselves that much, partially because we don't want this to be an ego driven project.
We want this to be something where we are kind of the lens through which you're also you as the listeners also processing some of these some of these really complex issues around, you know, race and and gender and technology and all these intersectionality. And so that's that's what we want our role to be. And so we try to disinter ourselves when we can while also hopefully wielding the authority of being the podcast hosts like responsibly. But we don't always, like, bring up.
What we're doing or like why we're the people that you should even be listening to in the first place and things like that, and so in this conversation, we did want to bring up just briefly kind of what we're doing again, like where we're situated and what we're researching. So just do you have, like an elevator pitch of, like what you're doing with your life?
Well, yes.
And also for academics, especially like students who are listening, this is something that's great to practice in general with your research, just like finding ways to explain it to people who might not even be in your field in like a three sentence description. And it's something that through this project, I've had to do a million different times because of all the intros that Dylan and I have had to get in.
And it's different every time. And you can tell that just and I are both in teaching assistant positions as well.
We're like very much like so undergrads out there, like this is what you should know.
We know that you're all not undergrads. But, you know, we we want we want the undergrads to be seen and heard.
Have you heard about our internship opportunities? We'll get back to that.
Stay tuned at the end of this episode and we'll talk about that anyways.
Back to what blatantly ignored your question, which is what the heck I'm doing with my academic career.
So preface because I'm still going to put off the question for one more minute, is that since we are both second year PhD students, obviously Dylan and I's research interests are not like nailed down to a dissertation title at this point.
And this is all an excuse to say that I'm figuring it out.
But what I'm working on currently is algorithmic fairness for the domain of recommender systems. And this is quantitative work. And that I'm working on the actual algorithms, the math ways to optimize metrics, ways to test fairness for recommender systems on the computer science side. And I'm also working on the qualitative side, like, what the heck is even fairness when it comes to recommender systems? Who are the stakeholders and what's at stake? What are the tradeoffs? So that's broadly what I'm researching. What about you?
And just so folks, again, know, you're at the University of Colorado, Boulder and your academic advisors are my academic advisors are Robyn Burke, who is the expert on recommender systems, and Casey Fessler, who is my expert go to on technology ethics.
And so my side is a little different, so I'm at a different institution, I'm at the University of Denver and that's an R2 institution. It's much smaller, more private institution. And because I'm technically in a joint PhD program between Eyelift School of Theology, so a theological school and the University of Denver.
So I do not have to declare who my primary advisor is for my dissertation until the end of this year, which is my second year. So because it's an interdisciplinary program, although it's focused in in religious studies, my kind of informal research topic is on questions of morality and what it means to be human in relationship to artificial intelligence systems.
And there's a lot that falls into that. Jess and I are doing research on computer science education and what it means to teach morality and ethics. When we're talking about A.I. systems in the classroom, I'm doing some work on human robotic interaction and what it means for us to talk about basic categories of morality. When we're talking about robots, do they have intrinsic morality? Is it all perceived morality like these kind of high flying theoretical concepts is what I bring to that human robotic interaction field. And then a lot of the work that I've been doing more recently is questions about death and technology. So the basic premise of that is that within somewhere within the past 20 years, there's been the shift that's occurred with how technology is impacting how humans are relating to death, whether that's in the processes, whether that's in, say, the memorial function on Facebook, whether it's on that emotional side or the logistical side or just even people thinking about like, well, can we technologically engineer and after life. So those kind of bigger questions, that's where my research is heading and probably where my dissertation is going to head is that intersection between death and technology and A.I. systems play a role in that, again, even on a theoretical 10000 foot idea.
So like, yes, I do not know exactly where that dissertation is going to go or what the primary research question is on that. But what I do know is that there's something happening out there with A.I. systems, morality, and at this point like death and technology. And I'm going to put it all together into something that can get me a degree at some point.
And that's all these students can ask for, really is a degree at some point.
And we'll see we'll see where the next twist with twists and turns go. But but I will say that I think I can speak for Justin now when I say that, like after every interview, are you there on a macro or micro level? Our research questions for our PhDs change like this project has made, you know, critical race theory, disability studies, queer theory like it has centered all of that into our individual and our collective research in ways that have just been so important for the fields that we're looking at.
Just are there other ways that you've seen like this radically project impact either your or our research? Totally.
I mean, it's funny because I actually didn't even really know that interviews were like a scientific method for pursuing knowledge in academia at that much. I mean, I knew a little bit, but I didn't know that that was like a legit process. You are a method that you could utilize. And so it's funny because we're kind of conducting a scientific study through this show. And I think some of the other methods that my eyes have been open to are really qualitative methods, because since I'm coming from this computer science background, I just didn't even really know that qualitative research was legit. And I'm like, I'm saying this in like a hushed tone because I feel like a lot of computer scientists think that, too. And it's awful. I hate the fight between qualitative and quantitative research and so like participatory design and code design and a lot of honestly, just like collaborative qualitative methods that a lot of our guests on the show have utilized in their own work, I'm starting to realize how much I want to utilize that in my work. And I think the last three research proposals that I wrote were only including qualitative methods that I've learned from people on this show. So it's it's impacted everything.
Yeah, I would just add that to that point, like everything that we're doing and hopefully all of this will also end up and this is maybe talking more about the future, but hopefully will be able to come up with some sort of actual level of publication about what we've learned through this process as it's on ongoing. And, you know, stay tuned. We're not going to speak too much about what that's going to look like. But we do try to think about this in terms of like interview research, study design and like call research, study design and it. Even that is an ethical process, right? So if we are trying to disinter some level of status quo, to make room and to make space for something more radical, and if what we're trying to do is in part define what radical AI is, then we have to be really intentional about our own personality. So the identities that we that that we embody, I guess I want to say, but then also like what voices were lifting up, what voices were not. There are certain things that that we think about often in terms of where we come from, our own position, our own identities, and then also in terms of who we lift up in this platform that we have. And so, like, if we notice a trend of, you know, having white straight women every week that is showing something about like what it means to be radical. So we're aware of the impact that the choices that we're making in terms of our design of the study, of this weekly podcast that they matter. And so we try to be intentional and responsible and accountable about that. But it's hard because once you're lifting up one voice a week, it means that you're not lifting up all the other voices. And so how do you do all of that responsibly? Is it something I think a lot about?
Yeah, I mean, this is interview methodology one on one to watch, which I'm learning now because I'm actually learning how to do this in academia. But if we don't want to have biased responses, we need to think critically about our interpretation of people's answers to our questions, the way that we do our our intros and outros, like if we're debriefing a topic that is like setting a certain agenda and that is our take away that we're trying to relay to. However many people are listening to the episode, like that's a value statement. If we're asking certain questions over others, that's a value statement. If we are, you know, like you said, asking certain people certain questions and certain people other questions, like that's totally something that's going to yield biased responses. And so we just have to think critically about what it is that we actually want to portray when it comes to radically AI and to make sure that we're not letting our own biases come into the conversation too much. And this is actually something that Bill and I have debated about a little bit on the show, because it's hard.
Sometimes we talk about topics on this show that are really difficult sometimes and make us squirm in our seats sometimes and probably do the same for you and other listeners. And so if we come into those conversations having a very explicit attitude towards one topic or another, then that's not good for us to predispose our listeners to think a certain way. But there are certain topics like, you know, racism and sexism and oppression that we do think it's really important for us to express our values, at least from the radically organization and and for this podcast, to let you all know that we stand strong and we feel strongly about certain topics, too. And so like balancing that fine line between like when we should remove ourselves from the conversation and let you come to your own conclusion and when we should insert ourselves in the conversation and say what we think is right and and to not prescribe that, but to let you know that that's what we think, like it's it's it's a tough balancing act.
So this was not the original goal of this podcast episode to talk about research methodology in podcast interviewing. But I think that's what we're going to title it, because I think that that's I think it's actually really important, especially as we continue to live in this quarantine Zoome life, where a lot of interviews for studies and things like that. And even in an industry right. When you do market research are being held. I think there are certain like ethics that that we need to pay attention to. And I guess I do want to explicitly say about about bias. Right. I think our standpoint on that is that we all enter like there's no space in which there's no bias. Right. There's no truly objective space. There's different ways that we can talk about bias. But we each by virtue of, you know, Jess and I, having grown up in the United States by virtue of both of us, I was going to say both of us being twenty somethings, but that's not true because that's not true for me anymore. But by virtue of just the fact that we're both white in the United States at this time.
Right. All of that contributes to the questions we ask, the questions we don't ask. And I think this is I guess I'm speaking for Dylan here. Not not for you just but. That I think the most important thing is that we name that when we can, that we own the biases, that we don't pretend that they don't exist and that we again, it's that accountability and responsibility, asking for feedback, listening and owning up when we make mistakes, because because we all make mistakes. But trying to do all of that and in a spirit of transparency, which I think is functionally really tough, honestly.
Yeah, but we promised to be transparent with all of you as we learn all of these things and as we inevitably make mistakes, which we've already made many of, and I'm sure we will in the future. So thank you for those of you who have called us out on that. So probably not even in this episode, we've made many mistakes. I thought of an example, just no, I'm not going to share because, again, we invite you to do your work.
You know, it's an important skill of inquiry of how did the radical I screw up this time? You know, that's important.
But in in the nature of what I would say, in the nature of transparency, we promise to you to be as open as we can be throughout this process as we are learning and growing as podcasters, as academics, as PhD students and just as humans, honestly. And so if you ever have any concerns with anything we're doing, any feedback, suggestions or just positive thoughts and, you know, gratitude and appreciation for us, we always love to hear from all of you. So please don't ever hesitate to reach out. You can send us a Twitter direct message or an email.
And I think something else that that Bill and I wanted to do to close this episode was just to kind of hype up some some future stuff that's going on. So doing what what do we want to hype up?
Let's see. Well, that's just that's a wonderful question. I, I wish we had written that down ahead of time.
But I do want to highlight what you sound like we we will do our we will do our best to do that. And when you send us a Twitter D.M., we will do our best to respond. And y'all will. We're super busy. So so don't so don't hate us if we're not on top of everything all the time as well.
We try to be responsible in our public personas. And also like we got we got our own stuff going on too.
So just be kind, be kind to each other and be kind to the radically I experience that's said, you know, this is this is our six month episode. And so this is also the time internally where we're as an organization talking about where we are, where we've been, where we want to be in the next six months, so that when we do the annual episode, we can be like, oh, OK, we did that. Oh, no, we didn't do that. Oh, maybe we could do those things more or less or whatever that I go into my I'm Italian, so that's my Italian media.
So as we're doing that work of looking at where we've been and where we're going, especially, we did want to we do have a few updates.
So the first is that internship opportunity that we mentioned earlier. So it's about halfway through October now. We're accepting applications until November 1st and we're looking for you. You're out there. So whether you're an undergrad or grad, we're trying to as people have given us opportunities, we're trying to pay that back. So we're trying to do it as ethically as we can. We're trying to make the position or positions paid, but that's still in process. And yeah, just please, if you have any questions, feel free to email us. If you know anyone who is currently an undergrad or grad student who might be a good fit, please do not hesitate to share the information which will be in the show notes of this episode.
And just to add an asterisk to that, because this is a question that we've received already. If you're not currently pursuing a degree, please reach out and feel free to apply anyway, because we just want to see applicants of all different kinds of backgrounds. So it is not just limited to students and it's not limited to whatever your current research background is, whatever your degree is, all that stuff.
We just want to hear from all of you. And honestly, we've been so excited to see the applications rolling in so far. And so just the the breadth and depth of knowledge and areas of interest of everybody who's applying so far has just already blown us away. So please continue to just show up as your unique self. And we already love it.
Right. Which which is also to say the reason why we're able to even offer this with our limited bandwidth is that we're trying to grow this organization. And so when I say organization, don't freak out. So we are the podcast is here. A podcast is staying. The what we're trying to do is we're trying to incorporate as a nonprofit.
And what that will allow us to do is to apply for more grants that will allow us to partner with different types of organizations, will then help us to create more opportunities for four more folks. And also, I mean, like a full disclosure would also allow us to be compensated in some way for the work that we are doing as well, because that is really important for us as as we seek justice for students to to be able to be compensated for the work that we're doing. So we're trying not to be selfish about it. And we're also trying to be have some sense of justice in that compensation. And that's also to also say that you can expect to hear about some more exciting partnerships, hopefully. Hopefully soon.
Yeah. So, again, a special shout out to all tech, human and ethical intelligence have been previous partners.
And we will tell you all as soon as we are ready to announce some future partnerships that are up and coming. But get excited because we're super excited. And I think that's it for our big news updates. And and I say that's it, you know, because this is episode is already gone way longer than we were expecting it to.
But that's what happens when you put Justin Dylan in front of a mic. So thank you all so much. If you made it this far for listening to us. And if you're new around here, we hope that this helped you get to know us a little bit better. And to understand that the two PhD students who created and founded and hosted this podcast that you hopefully tune into weekly on Wednesdays suggest that was shameless.
That was good. I guess. That's right.
It's you know, it means the world to us that we're able to do this week in and week out. And it is. A whole lot of. Work and, you know, I don't think there's any other way that we would rather spend our time than than doing this every week, the people that we've been able to talk to, the people that we're now in relationship with, the things that we've learned, not just I mean, this episode was focused more on like things that we've learned professionally or practically even, but like the things that we've learned personally from conversations and these relationships are are things that are going to continue to inform us and drive us and ground us for for the rest of our lives as individuals to.
Yeah, and that's actually thank you for bringing this up, Don, because this is a good note to end on to when people ask, you know, why we do this and why we spend so much time outside of all the time that we already have to spend doing PhD work to do this. The side project, especially given that we've made zero money on it and have actually spent some of our own savings on this project, is because it's a it's a passion project. This this project is purely out of love for this this discipline, this topic, this, you know, this this space and also this community.
And so thank you, all of you, for giving us the opportunity to pursue this project of passion, because, like Dillon said, it means the world to us. And we just feel so humbled and honored and lucky to have been given the opportunity to do what we do.
Yeah, we're a big fan of this ontological horseplay.
Is that going to stick with a guy listening, is this like mean girls where I'm never going to make fetch happen or start using ontological horseplay today? You made Minnesota happen. I'll give you that. But you don't get another one, OK?
It's like you have ESPN or something. Just. God, I love that movie. That's a great movie. So if you enjoyed this episode, of course, you know, check out our other episodes. If this is the episode, you started with an interesting choice.
But congratulations. That's a good choice to hopefully you learned a little bit about the inner workings of the radical podcast so that now the curtain has been pulled back.
You can go and you can listen to all the how how many episodes do we 30 something, 30 something episodes and have a maybe a different perspective.
And for more information on today's show and all of our shows, you can check out the show notes at a radical Ehi Dawg, of course, stay tuned for new episodes every Wednesday.
And when is the first time I haven't had the script in front of me for our outrages, so you don't have it memorized? Sorry.
Ok, stay tuned for our weekly episodes on Wednesdays. Make sure that you follow us on Twitter at radical iPod. You can join our conversation there.
And you got to have this one memorized. Alan, as always. I don't remember this day radical.
Lastly, lastly, if you did enjoy this more fun, informal kind of Jesson Dillon special, please do let us know because, you know, we love talking especially to each other.
We have a good time together, so we want to do it. But we also want to make sure that we have, you know, content that people want to listen to this.
So, yes, please, please do let us know if you enjoy.
From here, I think the ontological horseplay is occurring, all right, we're going to stop there. No, no, no. I think if I had an album.
Fade like a Scar album, scar the music, the scar, the radical eye genre.
I don't think we should choose a genre. I think it's too upsetting. So now is when in the editing done, you add ska music for the outro.
Is there some royalty for racehorses or what was it ontologically until I'm not keeping up anymore. I found we're trying to put the microanalysis.
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